Ep 26 💃 The Kylie Minogue episode

♪ What do I have to do? ♪♪

And also: ♪ Shocked by the power! ♪♪

You do realise at the start of this show, we're going to

have to put a major disclaimer about how bad the singing is?

Yeah, warning, warning!

There will be dodgy Kylie vocals from me and Alan.

Welcome to The Outlifting Lounge, the weekly show serving queer conversation,

news, and no-nonsense fitness for gay, bi, and trans guys.

I'm Alan.

And I'm his husband, Derec.

Coming up today, we are going to discuss

the one, the only, Miss Kylie Minogue.

We will also be talking about the really

regressive trans toilet ban in the UK.

And in the fitness section, we will give a rundown of the

cheapest protein sources you can get during the cost of living crisis.

Let's start the show.

How amazing was the Kylie documentary?

Oh my god, as a lifelong Kylie fan, this

week has just been the best week ever.

Yeah, when we watched the documentary and we spoke about how much nostalgia

there is in it, we realised that we've actually grown up with Kylie.

Yeah, for anybody who hasn't seen it or has been living under a

rock, there has been a three-part docuseries added to Netflix about Kylie's life.

Now, we watched it last night, back-to-back.

I don't think we even intended to watch all three episodes,

because they're like an hour-long each, but we could not stop.

It's been the first thing that I've watched in a

long time, where it's like, just let it roll.

Just let it roll.

Let's watch the next episode.

And we couldn't stop until we'd watched it all.

It is compelling viewing.

But episode one in particular is like the early

Kylie years, and that is absolutely our childhood, eh?

It was so good that I stayed up past my bedtime.

You really did!

I stayed up until half eleven to watch that.

That is like way past my bedtime.

Yeah. Normally we can't start watching a new episode

of anything after, I would say, 9:30

at the very latest, because Alan is

100% guaranteed to fall asleep during it.

Nine o'clock more like.

Yeah. But no, the first episode was amazing, talking about her time

in Neighbours, obviously, and then how our pop career started.

And then there was a little cameo from Jason

Donovan as well, which I thought was hilarious.

But can I just say, he came across like a bitter old man.

Oh, no.

He did!

I think there was a lot of tongue-in-cheek about it as well, but

you could tell that there's still a lot of feeling there as well.

Okay.

Okay, if you say so, but that's not the impression I was getting.

I don't think there's any bitterness there.

I loved, so when they did the premiere for the docuseries,

and they had the red carpet event, there's a really beautiful

photo that came from it, and it's Kylie Minogue and Jason

Donovan cuddling on the red carpet, and it's really special because,

what, like four decades later, they're still friends, and...

And he's still trying to be relevant.

He's like, yeah, I'll come to your premiere.

Aw.

Leave Jason Donovan alone.

And if anybody doesn't know who Jason Donovan is, he

basically starred in Australian soap opera Neighbours back in the

80s, where him and Kylie got their big breaks.

If anybody doesn't know who Jason Donovan is,

it's probably because they are 30 or younger.

Yeah, probably, actually.

We old!

Can I just say as well, like, the production of it is absolutely brilliant.

There were some real laugh-out-loud moments in

it, which I wasn't really expecting.

It was really, really entertaining and funny,

and yeah, it just warmed my cockles.

Oh, God.

Let's not talk about your cockles.

This is a family show.

What I thought about the docuseries was it was really well-produced.

It was really well-researched.

I mean, the amount of archive footage that they must have had

to go through and edit and piece together is unreal, but also

the pacing of the documentary in the edit is really good, really

gripping, and it tells such a beautiful story the whole way through.

And we obviously learned some stuff as well, so all the

backlash she got in the mid-80s that we wouldn't have known

about, because we were only very young at that point.

You know, we would have been like 8, 9, 10, 11, probably.

In the mid-80s?

- Uh-huh. - I wasn't, no.

In the mid-80s, I was like, 3?

Well, mid to late-80s.

Yeah, in the late-80s, I was 7?

Okay, well, I was talking, because, so obviously, she brought out her first

single in 1987, and then it was a couple of years after that.

Okay, late-80s then, let's call it late-80s.

So you would have been about 7 or 8?

Yeah.

The point I'm making is that we didn't know about

any of that because, obviously, we were too young.

Yeah, and even when I was a little kid who didn't really

know what gay was, even though he knew he was very different.

A flaming homosexual.

Even though I was a flaming homosexual even back then, Kylie

had been such a constant in my life, because I watched

Neighbours, I loved the whole Kylie and Jason story.

Along with like millions of other people.

But her music as well has just been such a constant in my life.

And it was only like when I started looking back,

you realise how many absolute bangers from our childhood, and

I'm talking about our pre-teen years, that Kylie had out.

Should we sing some of them?

Well, I knew you were going to hit me with

them, but I didn't realise we were singing them, so.

Hang on, right, so, um, this is just a disclaimer.

This section will feature some really dodgy vocals.

From Derec.

Mostly from Alan's mic.

And I don't have Autotune, so apologies!

Yeah, we're not doing a Katie Price.

I digress, we're not talking about that, right, go.

♪ I should be so lucky ♪♪

♪ Lucky, lucky, lucky. ♪♪

Oh! And also, ♪ Everybody's doing a brand new dance now. ♪♪

Locomotion was such a tune.

Go on, you can do the next one.

Am I going to test my GCSE French?

♪ I still love you. ♪♪

♪ Je ne sais pas pourquoi. ♪♪

Well done, that was quite good.

I have been practicing that for almost 40 years, so.

♪ Got to be certain. ♪♪

♪ I've got to be, got to be sure. ♪♪

Oh my God, that's, we've only just covered,

what's that, one, two, three, four songs?

We're not singing all of these.

There's like 12 here.

But a special mention to, ♪ Especially for you ♪♪

After all your slagging of Jason Donovan,

you're now going to mention THE duet?

I know, but that song is like, it's pretty famous.

But then we get into things like, Hand on Your

Heart, Tears On My Pillow, Wouldn't Change A Thing, Better The

Devil You Know, which is probably in my top five.

Oh, come on, let's face it, she has to do that at every tour.

Step Back in Time.

Step Back in Time's a banger.

♪ What do I have to do? ♪♪

Oh my God.

And also, ♪ Shocked by the power! ♪♪

We've probably lost about 50% of our listeners now.

Oh my God.

And also the last one on that list from our

childhood was, ♪ Give me just a little more time ♪♪

Oh God.

I'm probably going to have to cut that out because that vocal was so bad,

but Give Me Just A Little More Time was such a banger as well.

There are so many good pop tunes of that era in that list.

Like, she was the soundtrack to our childhood.

See, the thing is, like, see, looking at those, and obviously they were

out then, I would never think that that's when they were out, because

obviously we just listen to them and know them all the time.

Does that make sense?

Her music is so timeless, and that's what makes her a gay icon.

Princess of pop, I'll have you know.

The queen of pop, actually.

Is it the queen?

Who's the princess then?

Whoever Kylie decides is.

She's the queen of pop.

But yeah, like, and that is just from our childhood, and then when you

go on to, like, our teenage years, for me especially, the Impossible Princess album,

which I think was given a really bad rap on the docuseries, because it

was kind of glossed over that it was a low period in Kylie's career

where she tried indie, and it didn't really work for her.

But Impossible Princess was such an amazing album.

When you think of the songs that came

off that, like, Too Far, banger! - Remind me.

♪ Too many, too much, too far, help me ♪♪

See, I actually don't know this album that well.

- Some Kind of Bliss. - No.

♪ Every day is all there is, is there some kind of bliss ♪♪

I'm so sorry we're subjecting you to this, listeners.

Did it again?

♪ Did it again ♪♪

Yeah, I know that one.

♪ Clever girl ♪♪

Yeah. Oh my God, not only was that a banger of

a tune, banger of a music video as well.

Yeah.

All the different Kylie's, so good.

And Breathe!

Go on.

♪ Breathe ♪♪

Fucking hell.

I must say, though, although you're saying that this section on the docuseries

got a bad rap, Kylie did say herself she was trying to be

something that she wasn't, and that's why it wasn't really received well.

Yeah, but like, those songs are bangers, and they are, for me, Kylie.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you on that.

Well, I love it.

I've got, there's a very special place in my heart for Impossible Princess.

However, it was, it came out in 1997, and around about that

time, the indie scene was huge, and I was really into indie

music as well, so it was kind of like worlds collide.

There you go.

And you were probably finding yourself then as well, at 16.

Well, let's talk about, moving forwards, that's a

good segue, because then Light Years came out.

That was a gay awakening.

♪ Your disco ♪♪

Oh!

Right, we'll get onto that in a minute.

Can I just say, I went on release day to Virgin Megastore, this

is how long ago this was, to buy the Light Years CD.

Aw, your little gay heart.

I know.

It was full of joy that day.

It was.

Obviously, there's so many amazing pop tunes on that.

It is iconic, but as you've already mentioned, Your Disco Needs You.

I mean, if that's not in a gay man's top five

Kylie songs, then you need to hand back your gay card.

I remember going into the Kremlin gay nightclub in Belfast and being in

the back dance floor area, and when that song came on, that place

went off in a way that I don't think I've ever seen since.

Like, everybody, it just became such an instant gay anthem.

And what did I buy you as a moving in present

when you moved in with me all those years ago?

Yeah, whenever I moved in with Alan, he presented me with this

huge framed picture, and it was just like a black and white

poster with the words, Your Disco Needs You on it.

And do you know what?

That took pride of place in our kitchen for many, many years until we moved here

to Gran Canaria, and we need to get it shipped over because we need to put

it on our wall in our new place that we're moving into next week.

I know. There's a lot of stuff we need to get over, but we digress.

Do you know what?

Your Disco Need You is also Jackie O'Donnell's favourite song,

and it actually reminds me of her before it reminds

me of you, because obviously I've known her longer.

Okay, whatever.

Just throwing that out there.

And then what's your breakup song?

Oh, so that album also, years later, gave me a breakup song.

When I was going through a particularly bad breakup with someone,

because there was life before Alan, believe it or not.

What?

Yeah. That song is just so empowering.

I absolutely love it.

But that was the theme tune for me, like, finding myself again,

and really just getting back and enjoying life and having fun.

So, yeah.

Thanks, Kylie, for that.

Basically, So Now Goodbye is just the two fingers up to your ex.

Yeah, so just you be careful, because it could become

your theme tune if you don't play your cards right.

So if you start playing it here, then I need to pack my bags.

- Yeah, if you start hearing ♪ So now goodbye ♪♪ - I'm like, bye, Felicia.

♪ This time I will be gone, goodbye ♪♪

Yeah, you know that your days are numbered.

You do realise at the start of this show, we're going to

have to put a major disclaimer about how bad the singing is.

Yeah, warning, warning.

There will be dodgy vocals from me and Alan.

Okay, moving into some later albums.

Do you know what?

See when I was looking through all her albums earlier,

just reminding myself of how many bangers there are,

I did say to Derec that I need to make an ultimate Kylie playlist.

And he said, that will take forever and it will be very long.

I'm like, yeah, it will, but that just

shows you how many fucking bangers there are.

I've been to Kylie concerts and they go on for like two and a half hours.

And we've barely even scratched the surface of her discography.

When they showed Showgirls on the docuseries last night, I

was just like, oh, that was like a moment when

she, after her cancer and she was doing her homecoming.

in Sydney.

And like, I remember being at that concert and it was unbelievable.

And I used to listen to the live album from it all the time.

Oh, great memories.

Another memory actually was, I've already mentioned the Kremlin, but there's a bit

in the docuseries where it shows that Kylie's going through some of the

get well soon cards and letters that she received from that time.

And it reminded me that the Kremlin

organized a huge collection for cancer charities.

And they raised quite a lot of money, but part of what they

did as well as kind of like a publicity thing to raise awareness

around it was to get what they called the world's biggest get well

soon card that all of the punters in the club signed.

And they sent this massive get well soon card to Kylie at the time.

She loved it that much

it was on the docuseries.

No, it probably didn't fit into her archive room.

Yeah.

Can I just say on a side note, by the way, that there is only one Kylie?

Because there was a few years back, there was a whole legal thing

between Kylie Jenner and Kylie Minogue, and there is only one Kylie.

There's only one Kylie.

And she is globally famous, and the other one is famous for just being.

Just being?

Just being.

Not anything important.

So I think the thing I wanted to impress was,

like, Kylie has been the soundtrack to my life.

I know for you, you feel that way as well, but,

like, moving forward from that era, there was a little period

of my life in 2004 where I moved to Spain.

I lived in Granada and Barcelona for a little while, and a

few months before I moved to Barcelona, the Slow music video came

out, and it was just, it was such a big thing.

But that was shot at the Piscina Municipal de Montjuic in Barcelona.

And whenever I hear that song, it makes me think of the video, and

it immediately brings me back to that time when I lived in Barcelona, because

that was such a special time in my 20s, and I just love it.

And that's what I mean by Kylie being the soundtrack to

my life, because there are just songs that I hear, and

it brings me back to a specific moment in time.

You not singing that one, no?

No.

♪ Slow ♪♪

Now, the one that takes me back to a specific time in my

life is Spinning Around, and I remember going into Delmonica's in Glasgow for

the first time ever, and I wasn't out at this point.

Delmonica's, in case you don't know, is a famous gay

bar in Glasgow, and it was the old Delmonica's.

And Alan, if you didn't know, is a screaming

queen, so how he wasn't out is beyond me.

I was 20 at the time.

And so Spinning Around was on, and it was in the old Delmonica's, and they

used to have these like, brown booths all along, like the side of the wall,

and there was like, guys up on the table, like, dancing to it, and it

was packed, and I was just like, what the hell is this?

But I want to be part of it.

Grease me up and throw me in.

And, uh, Spinning Around is just, it just takes me straight back.

I can even, if I close my eyes, I can see where I was standing, and

the bar, and it's just, yeah, one of those tunes that just takes me back to

some good memories, but also like, oh Jesus, I need to, you know, change my life.

I need to become a homosexual.

I didn't need to change, I just had to accept that I was a homosexual.

So basically what you're saying is that Kylie

helped you realise that you love dick?

Pretty much, yeah.

I think that that is a very relatable story, Alan.

I mean, many, many guys have felt like that.

And there's so many other eras of Kylie that mean so much to

me, like, a few years after that, she released X in 2007.

And then in 2008, I ran a marathon for the first time ever.

So that album, the X album, I listened to all the

time when I was out running and training for the marathon.

And again, that era just, it reminds me

of me finding fitness, becoming really empowered.

That was when I, like, really changed my life.

I stopped, like, all the badness.

I stopped partying, stopped smoking, found the gym, found running.

And that X album just, for me, signifies me coming into my power,

me finding myself, me becoming strong, and just, like, living my life the

way I wanted to live it, really, truly, properly for the first time.

And there's so many songs off that album, like, ♪ Wow, wow, wow ♪♪

I think you'll find it's, ♪ Wow, wow, wow, wow! ♪♪

Oh, it's so good.

Has that got The One on it?

The One.

That is amazing, that song.

I don't think Kylie ever thought that that was going to be, like, a

big song off the album, but it just, it hit a note with everybody.

Like, that's my favourite song off that album, is The One.

In particular, is it Freemasons remix?

I think it might be.

It's really good off that.

Okay. But little aside here, Kylie brought her X tour to Belfast.

She did four consecutive nights.

And Derec went to all four of them.

No, I didn't actually.

I couldn't get the night off work for one of them.

So I went to three of the four nights.

And on the first night, she was doing her crowd work and stuff.

I was up really close near the front

of the stage, and people were shouting requests.

And The One was not on her set list.

And I was jumping up and down and screaming, sing The One, sing The One.

And pointing my finger up.

And I swear to God, Kylie Minogue looked at me, made eye contact with me.

What's that little gay Irish boy saying?

Yeah, pretty much.

And she laughed.

She smiled and laughed.

And I, shit you not, the next night, The One was on her playlist.

And that's the night he was working.

No, I was there.

And when I tell you that my little gay heart

just sang along with her, it was an amazing night.

And I will, hold on,

I am taking credit for the fact that Kylie added

The One to her set list during the X tour.

That's your claim to fame.

Whether that is actually what happened or not, I don't know.

But I'm taking the credit.

And even after that, all those years later, there are so many

Kylie moments and songs that, like, again, have soundtracked our life.

Do you know what?

It's like she just knows what we need at the right time,

because obviously she brought out the disco album during lockdown, and everybody

was just like, thank you, Kylie, this is exactly what we needed.

Yeah, she saved us.

So we held, obviously during lockdown, we couldn't really see anyone, but

it was my friend's birthday, one of my best friends, David.

And we had a little birthday party in the garden, so

it was me, Derec, my friend David, and his partner, Gordon.

And we brought the TV to the patio doors at the back, so

that we could sit in the garden, because she did a live...

Infinite disco.

And it was such a special night.

That night, I'll always remember that, because

it was October, it was freezing.

Yeah.

And we had a little outdoor heater, and

it felt like we were at the concert.

It was so intimate.

And like I said, it was just...

It just felt like Kylie knew what we needed at the time.

Yeah. It was very special that night.

And also, I think it would be remiss of us not to

talk about our wedding, because we got married during the pandemic.

We got married at the end of the first COVID lockdown in the UK.

August 2020, so between lockdown one and lockdown two.

And we could only have a registry office wedding, and

then 15 people back at the house, in the garden.

We had a big gazebo up, and it was

such a brilliant day, and we played Kylie.

Yeah, so there's two songs off her Golden album that immediately,

and I mean, when I say immediately bring me back to

our wedding day, I mean, often make my eyes water, give

me goosebumps, but it is Love and Stop Me From Falling.

Those are the two songs off that album that

immediately just make me remember our wedding day.

Yeah, so Love was our first dance, essentially, even though we didn't really

have something like that, but that's, we had a wee boogie to that,

and then towards the end of the night, we had people in the

house when we shouldn't have, because it was, it got cold, it was

a stunning day, the weather was amazing that day.

It got drunk.

It got drunk, and I think it was like midnight or something like

that, we were all dancing in the kitchen to, ♪ Stop me from falling ♪♪

I will say, we had the patio doors open, so we were semi-responsible.

Yeah. It was kind of outdoors.

It was.

That was six years ago, so it's fine.

And we now live in another country, so they're

not going to arrest us for it, but yeah.

Track and trace.

Whoa.

That was a flashback.

Nobody got sick, so it was all good.

Right, let's do it then.

Top five Kylie songs.

Oh no, don't make me pick.

So my number one is Love at First Sight.

Derec is actually sweating right now.

So this is really difficult, because my favourite Kylie songs change

all the time, but I'm going to say my number one

is actually one of her recent ones, and it's Padam Padam.

Go on then, sing it.

♪ You look like fun to me ♪♪

♪ You look a little like somebody ♪♪

Oh, the whole thing?

No, it was just the Padam Padam that I was asking for, but yeah.

Padam Padam, I think, is actually my number one of all time.

I just love it.

It's like, because it was such a global phenomenon.

The first time I ever heard it was here in Maspalomas, in

Gran Canaria, when we were on holiday before we moved here.

I think we'd been down to Poké Station for a wee Poké Bowl.

And that is not a euphemism, by the way.

We actually went for some food.

So I remember walking past, like, Greenfield and that,

and you were playing it on your phone.

And do you remember how excited I got when I heard that for the first time?

Yeah, I think you came in your pants a little bit.

Yeah, I did.

I was like, my God, Kylie is so back.

I think my number two is probably Better the Devil You Know.

I mean, that is like just a classic.

As soon as you hear that, you're like, it's a bit like Shania Twain.

Come on, girls!

That is a tune.

That's an absolute tune.

I'm going to say, Come Into My World.

One of the things I love most about it is the music video.

Yeah. Maybe if somebody was to see it for the

first time now, they wouldn't think much of it.

But at the time, it was just such an innovative and well-done music video.

All one continuous shot.

And then Kylie is overlaid and edited over

herself, walking through the streets of Paris.

And then there's like a million Kylie's by the end of it.

Okay, that's a good number two.

I would say number three is The One.

We've already mentioned that, but that is just like amazing.

Yeah.

There's another song that I really love that

gets an honourable mention at this point.

And again, it reminds me of a point in our

lives a few years ago when we went to Vegas.

And unfortunately, we were there a few weeks too early

because we'd had the trip planned for ages to go.

We got tickets to see Adele.

And we were unfortunately just a few weeks too early

to see Kylie because she was doing her residency there.

But we visited and we saw like all the big Kylie posters up and stuff.

And it was like, oh God, I wish we were here for that as well.

The Tension album was out at that time.

And there's a song on that called Vegas High, which again, just I

love because it connects me to that moment in time and that trip.

Okay, that's a good one.

I would say my number four is...

♪ Los Amores ♪♪ All the Lovers.

Oh yeah, and she did...

And I like the Spanish version that she did of it.

Yeah, the Spanish version was really good, actually.

It's good.

Oh God, this is so putting me on the spot.

I am sweating now.

And could I just say, All the Lovers reminds

me of the time we went to Belgium.

So that's another reason why I like that.

I think we've already mentioned it, but So Now Goodbye of

Light Years is just such a happy, upbeat, pop tune, and

it's so empowering, and it means so much to me.

So I'm going to give that my number four.

Okay. Now, I did say that if Your Disco Needs You isn't in your top

five, then you need to hand back your gay card, but I've already said

that, so I'm not going to put it in my top five.

Because my gay card is well and truly in my pocket.

Thank God, because that is my number five.

Okay, we can share it then.

So I would say then, from the disco

album, Dance Floor Darling is my number five.

Oh!

Is that a curveball?

That is a curveball, but it's a really good song.

And I think, let's just wrap up this section as well, just by

talking about Story, because that is the last track on the Tension album.

It's an amazing song.

It's, like, really euphoric.

It's really upbeat.

I always thought it was a really

brilliant choice to finish the Tension album.

It's just, like, the Tension album goes out with a bang because of that.

But Kylie tells the story about Story in the docuseries.

We won't spoil it in case anybody hasn't watched it, but I think

that song, I've always loved that song since the album came out, but

knowing the story behind it now just gives it a whole new meaning.

Yeah. And makes me love it even more.

Yes.

So that is our history with Kylie and our relationship with Kylie.

We hope we haven't bored you or burst your eardrums with all the singing.

Can I just say, though, the new single that

came out, Light Up, for the docuseries, brilliant.

And tour next year, which we're so going

to because we couldn't go last year.

This one is going to be big because this is her 40th anniversary in the

biz tour, and she's let slip accidentally on purpose that it's in the works.

So yeah, we will be there.

Always be promoting.

Yeah, she'll let it slip.

Yeah, we will be there.

I'm thinking, hopefully, she does a date in Barcelona.

We'll get a little flight over.

She might even do Gran Canaria Stadium.

We never know.

Gay gasp.

We'd love that.

Okay, let's...

Have we talked enough about Kylie?

No, we haven't.

Oh my God, I can never...

But I'm sure people are sick of listening to us, so...

And also, this is going to be a very long edit.

Unless we stop talking and move on.

Let's stop talking.

Right.

From the Queen of Pop, let's move on to something a little

more serious, and this is something affecting transgender people in the UK.

So, after quite a long wait, the EHRC has finally published

its guidance on single-sex spaces, following the Supreme Court ruling.

And the UK government are being very guarded about it,

and not really giving, like, charities or organisations enough time.

It's making it really difficult.

Yeah, this guidance was supposed to give clarity, and I

don't think anybody feels that it gives clarity whatsoever.

It is just an absolute mess.

Yeah, so basically they've issued a new 340-page draft code

of practice, and it applies to England, Scotland, and Wales.

And under the guidance, single-sex spaces, including public

toilets, changing rooms, and hospital wards, must exclude

transgender people based on their gender identity.

So we're going back rather than going forward, unfortunately.

A lot of this guidance was worked up under the previous chair of

the EHRC, Baroness Faulkner, who, since she left the organisation, she has given

quite a few interviews and she's said quite a few things that make

it absolutely beyond doubt that she is a rotten transphobe.

She should never, like, never have been put into that position.

She was put in by the previous Tory government and she

was not fit for the role because of her rabid transphobia.

So we're already starting from that place.

The new chair that took over last year, who was appointed by

the Labour government, that is Mary-Ann Stephenson, she was appointed despite the

fact that both the Women and Equalities Committee and the Joint Committee

on Human Rights, in the Houses of Parliament, had both raised objections

about her appointment, stating that her experience was not sufficient.

And there were quite a lot of LGBT voices that spoke at that

time to suggest that Mary-Ann Stephenson had some links to transphobic organisations.

How can that be impartial?

It's just unbelievable.

Yeah.

The whole thing is, it absolutely stinks to high heaven.

It really does.

And there's a trans rights group, Trans Actual, and they've strongly condemned

the draft, saying that it's rolling back existing protections, so actually

things are worse for trans people after this has been released.

And they criticise the government for a lack

of transparency and engagement with the community.

So the UK government, once this has been released,

aren't even contacting or working with trans rights groups.

Yeah. Because they just want to force it through.

And let's face it, it's not just trans

rights groups that they need to engage with.

This will impact so many other people.

There are a lot of cisgender women who are going to be impacted by this.

So although the draft guidance says that people should not

be routinely challenged in single-sex facilities, it does say that

where there are concerns raised about somebody's appearance or behaviour,

that it is appropriate to challenge them.

But, I mean, what qualifies somebody to

be challenged based on their appearance?

Is it because they're not feminine enough?

Is it because they don't conform by

wearing what's considered to be feminine clothing?

Is it somebody who is bald?

So, for instance, does somebody who's going through chemotherapy

have to worry about being challenged in women's toilets?

What about if somebody, a cisgender woman, is quite tall?

Does she have to worry about being challenged in toilets?

What if a cisgender woman has a deep voice?

What if a cisgender woman has Polycystic Ovary

Syndrome and perhaps has some facial hair?

Does she have to worry?

I mean, this is, it's actually quite misogynist policy because

it almost will force women to have to adopt to

these ridiculous standards of what a woman should be.

Yeah, there was a paragraph on it that I just was totally shocked at.

It said, the code states that actively questioning people about

their sex in a restroom is unlikely to be appropriate.

Duh.

In most scenarios.

No, in any scenario.

How could you say in most scenarios?

Though intervention might be deemed justified if other

users raise concerns about appearance or behaviour.

It's just shocking.

And it provides no clarity.

There's nothing there.

That's wishy-washy.

And what's to stop a cisgender man pretending to be a trans man

to go into a women's bathroom because that's what the rules are saying?

You have to go to the bathroom or the facility that

you have been the sex that you've been assigned at birth.

Exactly.

And it puts trans men in a really awful position as well.

I mean, it puts them in a dangerous position because if an

aggressive cisgender man sees what they see as a man going into

the women's toilets, what's to say that they won't go in and

drag them out and beat them up or something?

It's so dangerous.

And again, these transphobes view transgender men as biological women.

That's what they want to call them.

It's really horrible that they do that,

but how is that protecting them then?

They say that they want to protect what they call biological women.

How is that protecting that person?

It's not. It's putting them in danger.

Yeah, it's shocking.

And it's so sad to see that things

are being rolled back rather than moving forward.

In real stock contrast, there's a huge news story in the UK at the

moment, and it's about those two young guys who were found guilty of rape.

They recorded themselves raping a young girl, and they've

got off without a prison sentence, because the judge

thought that they didn't deserve a prison sentence.

I think for me, it's just that all of this focus, all of this emphasis

on where transgender people can piss, and it so has taken away from what the

actual danger for women and girls is, like, that should be our focus.

But instead, there's just so many newspaper columns, so

much broadcast has been devoted to this absolute non-issue

of trans people going for a piss somewhere.

Yeah, it's shocking.

Absolutely shocking.

Now, the fight isn't over because India Willoughby, who's a trans activist,

has said that trans people may have lost the crazy battle of

the bogs, but we haven't lost the war, and Europe beckons.

And basically, the piece which is in Attitude magazine is

saying it will go to the European courts, and then

hopefully there'll be some positive outcomes from that.

Yeah.

Let's face it, all of our equalities and advancements

have had to go through the European courts, so

this is probably where we're heading with this now.

So if we have got any of our trans siblings listening in, we're very

sorry that you are at the centre of the battlefield at the minute.

It's horrible, but we're with you.

We are always going to be allies.

We'll always use our voices and our activism to do what we can for you.

Yeah. Hopefully the next time there's a story about it, it'll be

positive and no doubt we will be sharing that as well.

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

Let's move on now with the show.

So our last section is the fitness section.

And this week we have a little bit of

a focus on nutrition and in particular protein.

Yeah. So protein targets for a lot of people are quite hard to meet.

And obviously there's a cost of the living crisis at the minute as well.

So what we've come up with is how to meet your

protein intake without it costing an arm and a leg.

I did a little bit of research yesterday and you know I love a spreadsheet.

You do love a spreadsheet.

I do love a spreadsheet.

So I went on to Tesco's website.

I looked at lots of different products and

the nutritional info and how much it costs.

And I created a spreadsheet which calculates what the price of

100 grams of protein would be for each food source.

So it kind of breaks it down for what the cheapest sources are.

Caveats to this are: doesn't include the cost of cooking.

It is just purely what the protein source is.

We're going to include plant-based and animal products in the section.

Prices are based on Tesco's website, which is from the 23rd of May, 2026.

And some of these are also current Clubcard prices as well.

And some of the foods will be high in carb content, and

you'd need to eat a lot to get a high protein intake.

So yeah, just to emphasise again, we're just

talking about purely what the protein is.

Starting off at the very cheapest that I could

find, this might surprise some people, but it is

Tesco's cheap pasta, the Hearty Food Co spaghetti pasta.

Per 100 grams, there's actually 12.5

grams of protein in the pasta.

Now, when people think of protein sources, they generally don't think of

things like pasta, but yeah, there is quite a lot there.

So that works out at 45 pence per 100 grams of protein.

And see, to be honest, like 100 grams

of spaghetti is actually a decent meal.

You know, like we would normally have like 75 grams, 100

grams of pasta when we're having like a pasta dish.

So that is so cheap for 12.5

grams of protein.

Moving forward, a lot of this, then, at

the cheaper end of the scale, is plant-based.

In case you don't know, Derec and I are plant-based.

For us, this is a bit of a no-brainer.

That is not to say, though, as we move down

the list, you'll see not all plant-based sources are cheap.

No.

Tofu, you little shit!

Yeah.

But, lentils, chickpeas, all really, really cheap here.

Red split lentils, 58 pence per 100 grams of protein.

Perhaps if you make a bolognese, why don't

you add some lentils to the bolognese?

It'll increase the amount of protein in the dish really cheaply.

The chickpeas, dried chickpeas, 71 pence per 100 grams of protein.

Now, and this is a little tip, the world food aisle is your friend.

It's your best friend for this stuff.

This is where you would find quite a lot of Indian food and world cuisines.

It's the aisle in Tesco where they sell the massive bags of rice.

That is so good.

They do some brands there where you can buy lentils, chickpeas, other

dried beans, things like that, and it is really good value.

So the lentils that I've quoted there, it's the Laila red split lentils, the

dried ones, and they work out at 58 pence for 100 grams of protein.

You make a really mean dahl using red split lentils.

Do you know what?

See, when you were doing this research and we were talking about

lentils, and I was like, we've not had a dahl in ages.

I don't think we've had a dahl, a homemade dahl since we moved

here, so I was thinking we need to get back into that.

You make us one tonight, then.

No.

Another benefit of these plant-based protein sources at the bottom of this list

is that they generally tend to be quite high in fibre as well.

We've talked to death about fibre on this show, but especially for, if you

are a guy who bottoms and you want to increase your fibre intake for

that reason, or in general, for other health reasons, if you want to increase

your fibre intake, this is a really good way of doing both.

You can get fibre and protein from one food source.

We call that a win-win.

A win-win without a wipe-wipe.

Wow.

Other things here, like green lentils, 77 pence per 100 grams of protein.

Porridge oats.

Brilliant.

There's 11 grams of protein per 100 grams of porridge oats, which works

out as 77 pence per 100 grams of protein of that food source.

Now, obviously, you're not going to have 100

grams of oats, because that's quite a lot.

So, like, we make overnight oats, and I would have 50 grams.

So, if you think about it over the week, you know, and we

speak about, like, your calorie goals and macro goals, it's a weekly target.

So, you're getting a not bad amount

of protein over two days there, basically.

So, again, we're going up the list, like, dried kidney beans, really cheap.

Another one, so this is something that's in the world foods aisle.

This comes in next.

It works out as £1 per 100 grams of protein.

It has got 21 grams of protein per 100 grams.

So, not a lot of people will know, might

know what this is, but it's Besan gram flour.

It is a flour that is made from milled

lentils and chickpeas, and it's really, really good.

We used to use it to make, like, a plant-based Spanish tortilla.

So, we had this recipe for it, and it was

really good for that, and it's super high in protein.

It's really, really cheap, and there are quite a few recipes out

there for things that you can make with it, or you can

substitute it for ordinary flour, or, like, a really high-protein alternative.

I'm just going to jump in and say you've not made that in a while.

Okay, I think I need to make that, given that we now live in Spain.

I definitely need to make that.

So, moving on, we have got peanut-based products.

So, the first one is the Tesco own-brand smooth peanut butter.

That works out as £1.34 per 100 grams of protein, and also in the world

food aisle, the Asani red skin peanut kernels, and that works out as £1.40

per 100 grams of protein.

For both the peanut butter and the peanut kernels,

around about a quarter of their content is protein.

Yeah, peanuts are a good source of protein, but obviously you

need to be aware of the fat content as well.

So, if you're keeping an eye on your macros, just be aware of that.

So, moving on, I don't think we need to go too far into this

list, but we are getting into where animal products start coming in now.

The cheapest, the very, very cheapest animal source of protein

that I could find was Frozen Butcher's Choice Chicken Fillets.

They are £1.52

pence per 100 grams of protein.

Pretty decent, and obviously they're high in protein, 27.9g

of protein per 100 grams, you know, chicken. Chicken's chicken.

So, moving on down, again, frozen seems to be good

value because there's the Bay Fishmonger's white fish fillets.

They come in at £2.09

per 100 grams, and then we get into some

tinned stuff as well, so like tinned tuna,

which most people would think of as pretty cheap.

That is £2.32

per 100 grams of protein.

And a little caveat on that as well, just remember if you're buying one that's

got sunflower oil in it, just be aware it's going to be higher in fat,

so we'd always recommend maybe to go for one that's in spring water.

Definitely, which that one is actually.

Actually, what becomes a bit more expensive than that are beans.

Now, the prices that we quoted earlier were for dried beans and pulses.

These ones are tinned.

So, tinned kidney beans, tinned chickpeas, they come in at £2.39

and £2.40

per 100 grams of protein.

And it's probably because they're cooked.

That's probably why they're more expensive, because obviously they've had

an extra process that they're having to charge for.

Yeah, really good source of protein.

However, the benefit of that is that you're going to reduce your

food waste as well, because they are tinned, because they're long life.

There are other things here, like for instance, the next

thing on the list is chicken mince, which is £2.63,

but that can expire

quite quickly in your fridge, so there is always

the element of food waste with some of this stuff, whereas you

don't get that with tinned and dried products quite so much.

Okay, why don't we jump to the most expensive one?

Because some people might be shocked by this.

So, this is actually not the most expensive.

I did not put the most expensive on the list, because it was too expensive.

You're like, I'm not made of money.

I know.

So, honestly, I didn't include lamb on

this, because lamb was ridiculously expensive.

Up at the top of the list is actually beef.

£5.62

per 100 grams.

Not far off it, though.

Just below that, actually, surprisingly, is tofu.

To be fair, so when we lived in Glasgow, we used to

eat a lot of tofu and tempeh and things like that, which

are really good sources of protein, but they are expensive.

And it's £4.04

per 100 grams of protein.

So, if you're looking for an alternative protein source,

tofu is actually really good, and it's probably in

line with maybe what you're spending at the moment.

So, if you do want to try

something different, then that's a good option.

Yeah. And generally, tofu is a little longer life than meat as well.

So, again, less food waste from it.

It's also quite an easy thing to digest.

Yes.

And if you're stuck on how to cook it, which a lot of

people are, because we were at the start, give us a shout, because

we have loads of recipes that we could send over to you.

Yeah.

But what we'll do as well is, during the week, on our

social media, we'll put out a little informational carousel with some of

these details of the price of different protein sources, so that you

can see for yourself and you can check it out.

So, yeah, that's a little rundown of some protein sources.

So, if you are looking to increase your protein intake

without it costing an arm and a leg during the

cost of living crisis, there's some few pointers for you.

Yes.

And give us a shout.

If you've found anything that's cheaper or something that's your

go-to, why don't you let us know about it?

You can pop us an email, and we will tell you just now how to do that.

Yeah, remember, you can get in touch with us by email.

The address is podcast@outlift.ing

or you can drop us a DM on Instagram.

Our handle is @outlift.ing

But that is us for another week.

Just a reminder, Alan and I run Outlifting, which is

an online service for gay, bi, and trans guys who

want to transform their bodies and build unstoppable confidence.

We do that through personalized online fitness coaching,

nutrition planning, accountability check-ins, and so much more.

Now, if you think that you could benefit from our

service and want to join the ever-growing Outlifting Pride community

of guys just like you, then get in touch.

You can book a free, no-obligation, no-pressure discovery call with us.

We will meet up with you by video to discuss your needs, your goals,

and then we can explain how exactly we can help you reach them.

You then can decide if we are a good fit for you.

So, click the link in the show notes, book your

call now, and we look forward to hearing from you.

We have a new show next week, and don't forget to subscribe

But for now, over and Outlifting.

But for now, over and Outlifting.